tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post8943592824380276311..comments2023-05-14T08:25:20.167-04:00Comments on Physicality of Words: What is a "real woman"?Åkahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09547046504097554789noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-15449333483215013582009-04-09T02:15:00.000-04:002009-04-09T02:15:00.000-04:00I agree that the term *feminist* should be support...I agree that the term *feminist* should be supported, since the only people who use it pejoratively are sexists and/or the historically ignorant. However, I do understand that identifying oneself with the word can have repercussions in the wrong environment. For many of us, getting a bad rep at work or school is not an option.<BR/><BR/>But that is precisely why one should declare oneself a feminist whenever possible: in a safer context, it simply means one's nomenclature is accurate.<BR/><BR/>Another consideration: perhaps Åka wants to discuss persistent social/internalized patterns and their effects without limiting the discussion to predefined positions. I think that can be done without avoidance of the term *feminist*, but I also understand the desire of individuals to avoid being limited to the common terminology of previous generations. The question is whether particularity of thought is served by the absence of common terms.Scrypthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10128735683332982682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-91766973171492873222009-03-18T09:32:00.000-04:002009-03-18T09:32:00.000-04:00Thanks for bringing the confusion of the terms sex...Thanks for bringing the confusion of the terms sex and gender into the discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-17071379606011271732009-03-18T09:05:00.000-04:002009-03-18T09:05:00.000-04:00Well, I feel more than uncomfortable telling trans...Well, I feel more than uncomfortable telling transgendered people they should shut up and accept they haven't switched genders, for example.Johan Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908066751077487536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-61249030826603238322009-03-18T05:34:00.000-04:002009-03-18T05:34:00.000-04:00Pomo humbug.Pomo humbug.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-21013071021112680312009-03-18T05:20:00.000-04:002009-03-18T05:20:00.000-04:00Actually, Björn, In disagree with that. Labels are...Actually, Björn, In disagree with that. Labels are definitely things you put on yourself. Everyone is free to reject other people's labels.Johan Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908066751077487536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-79028472617070215762009-03-18T03:32:00.000-04:002009-03-18T03:32:00.000-04:00Either you hold the views that makes you a feminis...Either you hold the views that makes you a feminist or you don't. It's not a label that you can choose to apply to yourself. To the extent that you do you have misunderstood what it means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-51767992405374749972009-03-17T18:48:00.000-04:002009-03-17T18:48:00.000-04:00Well, I agree there's something to it. You might w...Well, I agree there's something to it. You might want to fight when someone is taking over a word like that. How, that's more problematic. Feminism have changed, for good or bad. Keep using it when the people who speak with is interpreting it as something else just makes them think you mean something else than you do.<BR/><BR/>Ignoring the fact that a word changes just wont be enough, though.<BR/><BR/>As for what I call myself? I call myself just me. I already have to explain what I really believe or think, and the categories seems to make people confused these days. I never match their preconceived notions anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-18758654197503381452009-03-10T12:48:00.000-04:002009-03-10T12:48:00.000-04:00"I might be oversensitive"Not at all.//JJ"I might be oversensitive"<BR/><BR/>Not at all.<BR/><BR/>//JJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-38238417017354542702009-03-10T10:53:00.000-04:002009-03-10T10:53:00.000-04:00"And sometimes I think it's worse for men, because..."And sometimes I think it's worse for men, because they often have even more pressure on them to be male."<BR/><BR/>This has surely been said countless times before, but: Men should be careful with how machismo -- the pressure to "Show Strength" (by a very narrow definition of the term) -- actually makes them quite vulnerable. <BR/><BR/>A person who must "prove" himself at every turn can easily be manipulated into doing very stupid things: <I>"I'll bet you don't have the guts to climb that power line/fight that guy/swallow this pill/win a Darwin Award" etc.</I><BR/><BR/>For example, when someone accuses you of "backpedaling" in a discussion, it's the ol' machismo game: <I>"I'll bet you don't have the guts to never change your mind."</I><BR/><BR/>Women who feel the need to prove their "femininity" (also very narrowly defined) are basically playing it safe. <BR/><BR/>They know they will rarely be pressured to <I>take risks</I>, but rather the opposite: play it safe, do not stand out from the crowd, do not display initiative or creativity, don't risk public failure.<BR/><BR/>But there's so much more than one way to define "risk". Or "strength". So much of these roles is based on defining the terms, or "framing the debate". Language shapes our thinking. <BR/><BR/>Can language be used to liberate us from the prison of definitions?A.R.Yngvehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03972668378286177600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-68609883170390975662009-03-09T02:42:00.000-04:002009-03-09T02:42:00.000-04:00Ante, you are still letting them win. There are co...Ante, you are still letting them win. There are countless of morons out there calling themselves liberals, conservatives, socialists. Atheists. What about Christians, do you still call yourself that? You (and most people) don't apply the same principles to those labels, but the anti-feminists are for some obscure reasons winning this battle.Johan Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908066751077487536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-24731257076938476252009-03-08T19:19:00.000-04:002009-03-08T19:19:00.000-04:00Then you live in a *very* different social context...Then you live in a *very* different social context than I do. Good for you, maybe.<BR/><BR/>To infer that it's all in my head is just silly though. I don't just make things up, you know!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-31904562440401835222009-03-08T18:35:00.000-04:002009-03-08T18:35:00.000-04:00I'm sorry to say this, but the meaning of "feminis...I'm sorry to say this, but the meaning of "feminism" hasn't changed. Any extra connotations you might have are all in your head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-83222854994151489562009-03-08T18:18:00.000-04:002009-03-08T18:18:00.000-04:00M is spot on here. There are way to many morons ca...M is spot on here. There are way to many morons calling themself feminists for me to do it. <BR/><BR/>Those of you who think feminist just means equal rights, face the fact that it doesn't any longer. It has acquired a new meaning, and a lot of that has to do with a certain political party with which I'd never want to be associated with even if I think equal rights is a no-brainer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-32283234711924930102009-03-08T17:47:00.000-04:002009-03-08T17:47:00.000-04:00Really short reply. Yes, we did have a little conv...Really short reply. Yes, we did have a little conversation about the word "feminist", but for the sake of clarity and brevity I just left it out from my post here. Maybe not so good. Well. Anyway, usually I have no problems with calling myself a feminist, but sometimes -- as you say -- it really becomes an uncomfortable label that you want to avoid. I try not to *start* conversations at that end.Åkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09547046504097554789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-10260677648900054972009-03-08T17:29:00.000-04:002009-03-08T17:29:00.000-04:00"That's not a very feminine way to stand" was toda..."That's not a very feminine way to stand" was today's non-sequitur for me.<BR/><BR/>Dr. M: I see what you mean and how the F label can be viewed as another form of labelling, but I also think saying that you are letting the anti-feminists win. They have striven to make this label uncomfortable, and they are reaping the fruits of that.Johan Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10908066751077487536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-50125214809460716202009-03-08T13:30:00.000-04:002009-03-08T13:30:00.000-04:00Should women have the same rights as men? If you t...Should women have the same rights as men? If you think so you are a feminist. Whatever opinions Eva and Tiina has in addition to that doesn't change that, and it is you that muddles the argument by bringing that up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-16200491359185115442009-03-08T13:17:00.000-04:002009-03-08T13:17:00.000-04:00Björn: I can't and won't speak for Åka, but it rea...<B>Björn:</B> I can't and won't speak for Åka, but it really isn't so hard to see why it might be problematic to call yourself a feminist. I subscribe to pretty much all of the views Åka expresses in this blogpost, but still wouldn't call myself a feminist for a number of reasons. Just to mention a few: Feminism is terribly ill-defined, and can mean almost anything to anyone. You can't know what someone might read into it, and you still have to explain exactly what your views are. That said, to a great many people, feminism doesn't just mean "letting gender be secondary to indiviuality", but is a term that comes with a lot of political baggage, usually of some socialist persuasion or other. I am most certainly not a socialist, and would not like to be associated, even implicitly and wrongly, with socalism or with people like Eva Lundgren and Tiina Rosenberg. Thirdly, a century ago (or decades, as the case may be) gender equality was all about giving women the same rights and legal status as men. Even though much remains to be done, society has thankfully progressed to the point where we no longer need to discuss women's suffrage and such things, but can think about gender roles in a more general way (as in the blogpost). That is a discussion that should not focus on one particular gender, which the term "feminism" implies, by etymological construction.<BR/><BR/>In short, "feminism" is a term that mostly just gets in the way of seriously discussing the actual issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885694854287201066.post-48446486314978003422009-03-08T08:49:00.000-04:002009-03-08T08:49:00.000-04:00After that argument for letting gender be secondar...After that argument for letting gender be secondary to individuality (as good a definition of feminism as any), I find it strange that you would see it as problematic to call yourself a feminist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com